The West is now ready for the RETROGRADE programme of recovery. Thats my ecclesiastical position. Who determines where that is? The original story was that he was apparently leaving to focus on his own podcast series or something like it and that it was a relatively amicable departure. The Patrick Coffin Show podcast features weekly interviews with A-list influencers and outliers in the effort to recover the Judeo-Christian roots of the culture. Irrelevant. Sounds a bit petty, but I have noticed there's a lot of division and debate in the Catholic blogosphere regarding the SSPX. Roman Catholic theologian and translator of the Catholic Public Domain Version of the Bible. Unofficial theme song for Dr. Taylor Marshall's "TnT" videos.Clips from Taylor Marshall youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Taylor0Marshall/videosN. You are wrong on all of these things. Bottom line: Timothy Gordon is clearly trying to reach out to Taylor and stop the disunity; Taylor Marshall wants no part of it. Its an important intellectual matter and it merits dispassionate debate. (7:15 PM), My brand CANT be damaged by defending the ONE HOLY CHURCH against outsiders who claim my Sunday obligation isnt fulfilled if I attend novus. I think Im a great champion for women. Look at what the Church says on the matter: [link] (4-12-20, 9:43 PM), Debating an issue is fragging? (1) No Pope can teach heresy or grave error. He used the huge analytics boost his channel got from TNT and then ditched me, presumably cuz Im not Trad enuf for biz expsn[.] Husband, and Father to 8 children. David Gordon said it would have been futile to contact his brother about the dispute. For context, here is one of the podcasts they did a while ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxoUW3Tn01Y. The basic distinction between masculine and feminine, and why the sexes are not equal but complementary. Now, back to what Taylor Marshall said: this statement bothers me more, I think its more heretical, more grievous than anything in Amoris Laetitia. The basic trouble with going far right on the ecclesiastical spectrum: radical right; radical Catholic reactionary, is how far right does one go? And it feels like a worse betrayal because it was family.. Then, too, anyone who stands in judgment over the Pope, violating the teaching and law that no one may judge the Pope, commits the sin of schism. Marshall: theyre accusing him of the canonical delict of heresy. That research that she just took represents years of my life. ], Update: called Taylor a little bit ago to wish Happy Easter Monday and bury the petty squabbles. PS: this isnt a big deal. All the while, Marshall continues to receive Communion, despite rejecting the Roman Pontiff. Ill speak to ANY of these guys Ive ever crossed swords with. I just dont want this dragging out in public. I think youre [Steve Skojec] closer to my position than Taylors since both of us wont attend SSPX (for ineffable reasons, even) and yet he will (5:20 PM), In the interest Christian unity, Id like to emphasize that I do NOT believe that@TaylorRMarshallerred by receiving the Eucharist from the SSPX on Easter; regular parishes are widely shuttered and there was no other possibility of receiving the Holy Eucharist. Ron I know under Canon law the pope can resign, but does The conclave then examine the resignation to see if it meets Canon law and was freely done? Conservative/Christian Talk Radio! Steph and I tried calling, texting, and to get mutual friends and colleagues to mediate the dispute, or just to convince him to pick up the phone and return my calls. (8:50 PM), You bet. He simply tweeted his appreciation on Easter Sunday to the SSPX because he and his family were able to physically go to Mass and receive the Sacraments on Easter Sunday. This practice results from, among other things, our respect for our various authors.. At around the same time, David was hired as a copy editor and writer for the Church Militant website. Mind your business Steve. Tim pointed out that after she submitted her manuscript to TAN, Stephanie Gordon actually asked her publisher to remove reference to sources most specifically attributable to Dave, and to add a footnote mentioning her brother-in-law: for this citation, and a handful of others in this chapter, I am indebted to the early research of my husband and his brother, in an early draft of what became my husbands book, The Case for Patriarchy, and also what will in the future become my brother-in-laws book, No ChristianFeminism.. Its meant to take away mans headship, his properly ordered headship, and it's also meant to take away masculine and feminine roles as assigned to husband and wife., A decline of male headship, he said, has led to the culturefalling too. The Spirit also works with unbelievers, such as atheists and agnostics, so that they might find salvation by loving their neighbor, and thereby may implicitly know and love God. People seem so depressed. This sounded very familiar. Some Thoughts on Where Not Bad People Might End Up, Of Artificial Intelligence and Human Folly, More on How I Understand and Interpret Revelation, Some Thoughts on Where Not Bad People Might End Up - Catholic Stand, Artificial Intelligence: What is it and Where is it Going? Yellowjackets is an American thriller drama television series created by Ashley Lyle and Bart Nickerson.It stars an ensemble cast led by Sophie Nlisse, Jasmin Savoy Brown, Sophie Thatcher, Samantha Hanratty, Liv Hewson, and Courtney Eaton as a group of teenagers involved in a plane crash in 1996, with Melanie Lynskey, Tawny Cypress, Juliette Lewis, Christina Ricci, Lauren Ambrose, and Simone . That's it? Amid the split, Tim was fired in June 2020 from the Catholic high school where he taught religion, after posting on social media that Black Lives Matter was a terrorist organization which aimed to incite violence. Spinnak3r 3 yr. ago (9:50 PM), Clarify where correct; apologize where incorrect. Radical Catholic Reactionaries, Defense of Vatican II vs. Oliveira Leonardo's Attacks, Tertullian's Eucharistic Theology: Lucas Banzoli vs. J.N.D. When youre writing something, getting your research together is 80% of the work, he added. Advocating for a restoration of Christian patriarchy has been a central theme for the brothers. If it is an apologists opinion, not the teaching of the Church I ask, Do you receive the Sacraments from so and so? Do you go to your apologist when you have a problem in your marriage? Where does so and so receive authority to teach? 2 or 3 of them. And since the DOGMA of the First Vatican Council teaches us that no Pope can teach or commit heresy, Marshalls accusation is itself heretical. Accusing the Pope of speaking, teaching, or believing heretical things is heresy, as the Pope is protected by the prevenient grace of God from teaching or being a heretic in any way. The current dust-up has far more potentially serious . Its not the first time. That is pretty much it. 2 of Daves biggest heroesSheen and Burkeagree with him[.] Kelly. Such was my purpose for my rejoinder. . No one who considers the Pope to be a heretic also submits their mind and heart to the teaching of that same Pope. And since this gift is of prevenient grace, it admits of no exception. He wont call back. Dont worry brother, No worries at all. All of us, me included. (3:43 PM), The point of departure was NOT receiving Communionwhich is licit all things consideredbut the apology for not just inaccurate statements about SSPX (which is great!) He has very thoroughly rejected the magisterial authority of the Pope, to such an extent that whenever the Pope teaches anything contrary to Marshalls own thinking, he immediately assumes the Pope is wrong (see below), and he does not accept Pope Francis as Teacher and Shepherd. Sorry to see him go, but pride goeth before a fall. I have been collecting materials for something like that for a little short of a decadeand I was up all night writing this thing, and for or someone to kind of swan in and essentially take my arguments, take all my sourcing, which took years to put together, and claim credit for it is unconscionable. Finally, God wills to permit unbelief and highly-flawed religions, under His permissive will, because He respects our free will. Shots fired by Retrograde Gordon Bros against Marshall. I'm going to vindicate this manuscript., Thanks. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns. David told The Pillar that Stephanie Gordon took large swaths of research from his manuscript to produce a chapter of her own book. Take it up with them. For their good and mine and all of us, Im officially ending this nasty Twitter feud. (1:47 PM), There were other pastoral councils that did not condemn a heresy. David, author Stephanie Gordons brother-in-law, told The Pillar that crucial sections of Ask Your Husband were plagiarized from his own unpublished critique of feminism. Tim appeared regularly on Marshalls YouTube show until early 2020, with the pair calling themselves TNT - Taylor and Tim. Im fine. Wish ALL of them into the Kingdom of Heaven[. Lefebvre voted for EVERY SINGLE DOCUMENT. I dont think you get it. But Trads have flatly misunderstood religious freedom in Dignitatis: read Leo XIIIs IMMORTALE DEI 36, which Trads reject Dave and I agree 100%about Dignitatis, Agreed that there was a modernist intent going in. Tim told The Pillar he had been advised by an intellectual property lawyer that a 2018 federal court decision, Experian Information Solutions, Inc. v. Nationwide Marketing Services, Inc., applies to the question of whether Stephanie Gordon violated copyright law and she didnt do so, Tim said. I think Fr Khouri might have been implying that few if any Christian Apologists are making their living by tent-making these days ,Patrick. Major pattern. He exalted himself above the Pope, rather than humbling himself before Christ. Verses are not contextualized in the scope of scripture as a whole, or even within the biblical book itself., Ask Your Husband is an earnest attempt to respond to some real problems in our culture, ones that plague many marriages, Favale wrote. When it's just laymen running these one-man apostolates, which are very much self-promoting and self-glorifying, there's a danger of people falling into serious grave mortal sin in order to get more money. Shall we list the many who have done this? ], Im not a grudge holder. Even an atheist will acknowledge that. Abigail Favale is a Catholic, and the author of The Genesis of Gender, a Catholic treatment of the phenomenon Pope Francis calls gender ideology, published by Ignatius Press. One can only approximate how much one wouldnt have known if they hadnt seen someone elses citationsIn terms of the approximate remediability of pretending to know something you wouldnt have known if you hadnt read someones work but were going to research the same topic, how much of their sources would you have found?, Well when were talking about scripture and major encyclicals that pretty much everyone that knows anything about this knows, and you talk to the person for a long time, its really hard to come to a conclusion other than, yes, Steph would have known where to look in the scripture, because I knew. Anyone who accuses any Pope of teaching material heresy, or committing heresy is guilty of heresy, for rejecting the dogma that Popes cannot teach or commit heresy, and is guilty of schism, for refusing submission to the Pope. Ego kills. Not gonna tweet anymore on this, Agreed. There's a race to create catchy headlines. I love dialogue; I care about Taylor; most of all, I love the truth. Taylor Marshall is a heretic and a schismatic. Thats heteropraxy, not heterodoxy. David said he would not answer questions or speak on behalf of his employer. (4-13-20, 12:52 PM), I reached out to [Timothy Gordon] this morning, actually. Pope Francis: But some might ask themselves: but why is the Pope going to the Muslims and not just to Catholics? But now and then, a high-profile reactionary actually becomes more diabolically self-consistent (though further from the truth) and ventures over the line. The plagiarism charge is a noteworthy split among the self-identified retrograde conservative Gordons, who are known among some Catholics for Tim's polemical social media presence and his Rules for Retrogrades YouTube show. . Pope Francis taught the view of conservative theologians that God merely permits a plurality of religions. But after the fact of our sinfulness, our fallenness, our brokenness, given that many persons are weak in many ways, and so cannot bring themselves to accept the Catholic religion, God permits them other paths to salvation, which are nevertheless always through Christ and His Church (even though they may not realize this). (1:49 PM), Thats heteropraxy, not heterodoxy. Earlier still, on April 12th, Gordon tweeted: Im not asserting with certainty that SSPX is in a formal schism. The latter of which was/is troubling and misleading, Im not convinced SSPX is in schismatic! Hypocrite is the right word here. But youre not understanding that conciliar documents need to be interpreted under the construction most optimally faithful to Tradition, wherever possible. Its destructive and wrong. He is after fame and fortune and spotlight and this is really low, he said. But the debate should be: a) not avoided and b) CIVIL, Nobody wants the Catholic infighting, Taylor. It's really disappointing to see two Allies so publicly argue. [In Terra Pax Hominibus; Denzinger 351-353.]. I would never frag ya[.] Fr. Ive been reaching out for months; just defending myself against slander[.] Ask Your Husband argues that men should govern women, that men helping with housework are guilty of soft transgenderism, and that a wife should seek her husbands consent before leaving the house. I said nothing about you or your family on here and never would! this morning, actually. I was reading an article about a Florida proposal to install anonymous Jesus mingled with sinners throughout His earthly life. Yes, the Open Letter accuses Pope Francis of committing formal heresy, which carries the penalty, under the eternal moral law and Canon law, of automatic excommunication. Thats why. And a lot of those deeper points, its like, Oh, thats her brother-in-law. So I dont think much of the book, to be honest. People hold up a Black Lives Matter banner as they march during a demonstration against racial inequality in Washington, D.C., June 14, 2020. Also for the record, Ive never been certain why Taylor opted for non-renewal during the peak of TNT popularity. My sole issue with his Easter tweet was that he retracted his previous due criticisms of the SSPX, which I worried would nudge many of the faithful to attend SSPX liturgy, which would endanger the less-educated in the Faith, since they will more readily succumb to therebellious mindset of the Society towards VC II and towards the Novus Ordo, a mindset that is condemned by the Church. Brothers squabbling a bit is the inevitable cost of abandonment by our spiritual fathers; all of us have various talents, but none of us have authority to pronounce on theological questions. What theyre talking about hereis formal heresy.. See the pattern there? Petty, self-serving, vindictive, egomaniacal acts like releasing sensitive private 411 about my household. by Taylor Reed Marshall is an American Catholic YouTube commentator, writer, and former academic known for his advocacy for traditionalist Catholicism.He is the author of multiple books including Infiltration: The Plot to Destroy the Church from Within published in 2019. I heard he was mad about some of them[.] See this list of magisterial teachings. Its practically sedevacantist.. . Canon 1364, n. 1: an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication. (9:58 PM), Lefebvre voted for EVERY SINGLE DOCUMENT. That shows the extent of the danger of the one-man apostolate, because there's all the temptations out there, he said. Patrick is the Canadian-born former host of Catholic Answers Live, and he has raving fans around the world. Learn how your comment data is processed. Gotta be two-sided though. Professional gurus need money to survive but when their popularity wanes then the cycle begins again as the apologists have to reinvent themselves or go back to regular work. But Trads have flatly misunderstood religious freedom in Dignitatis: read Leo XIIIs IMMORTALE DEI 36, which Trads reject Dave and I agree 100%about Dignitatis[.] Even atheists recognize that fact. Marshall: Honestly, Tim, I think Ive said this before, this statement bothers me more, I think its more heretical, more grievous than anything in Amoris Laetitia. It becomes like the infighting of pope-less Eastern Orthodoxy. Dont act as if fringe groups and their leaders arent the mob w/ gang bosses on Cath twitter. And this is the danger of when you kick this away from the magisterium, members that are clerics have grace of state that helps to prevent some - not all - of the greed from setting in.. What would a resurrection of men look like? He sent a diplomatic text insinuating there wouldnt be a call. (3:54 PM), Yes, Dave and I disagree on stuff. Get thicker skin. Meaning inheres in text, not intention. Whats obtuse is a hermeneutic of intentionalism instead of a hermeneutic of textualism[.] - Moreover, since we are not in full communion with SSPX, receiving the Eucharist with them is a performed falsehood. And yet you complain that the divorced and remarried may receive Communion despite their objectively grave sins. EWTN, Catholic Answers or their personal blog? Only dad does. In this episode, you will learn: The evidence Ive compiled is damning., And they were like Yeah, this is overwhelming. I spoke to TANs attorney on the phone, and I had him look at the side-by-side, and he was telling me on the phone, Oh gosh, this is obviously your work.. to support her claims. (5:07 PM), Im not convinced SSPX is in schismatic! But David said his brothers argument misses the point. And what will happen after the Pontificate of Francis, if a conservative Pope is elected? You had three authors writing two companion books practically under one roof; feminism was basically all we talked about in those days, he told to The Pillar. (11:32 PM). You may not prefer your own understanding of the Faith over the teaching of the Papal Magisterium. You are wrong on all of these things. The plagiarism, David said, is extensive., Her entire chapter: The structure, the argument, there being an unbridgeable gap between Christianity and feminism is just my structure. I was being snubbed. Radical Catholic reactionaries love to habitually go up to the line but not quite goover it. Theres always room to come@back together. I think youre, closer to my position than Taylors since both of us wont attend SSPX (for ineffable reasons, even) and yet he will, In the interest Christian unity, Id like to emphasize that I do NOT believe that. You get the picture. You are living in objective sin and leading others into that sin, by your heresy and schism. I recognize Pope Francis as the Pope. Check out some of the. He is refusing to be taught by Pope Francis. The example shown by so many conservative Catholics is gravely immoral. So theres this discrepancy there, you can tell what was her original thought, because its a lot of pop culture tropes that are being regurgitated, and then shell throw in something thats a deeper point, he added. (4-12-20: Easter Sunday, 6:25 AM), Shots fired by Retrograde Gordon Bros against Marshall. Those who reject the Magisterium, grasp at straws seeking its replacement. Only dad does. The good part is that its NEVER too late to make up[.] And since Marshall does accuse Pope Francis of heresy, later in the video, he is not in submission or communion with the Pope. We expectthis important works voluminous sales to continue at that time, he told The Pillar April 7. This shouldnt be engaged in public. Ask Your Husband says it is an anti-feminism book, which recommends that women defer to male headship. It counsels that silence is an integral part of womanly humility and obedience, and that when a woman speaks, she ought to direct her listeners to the wisdom of her husband., Stephanie Gordon writes in the book that she is the vocally supportive wife of a public conservative, Catholic alpha male who has built his career upon, among a few other items, the restoration of the patriarchy, adding that she aims to direct my female audience to the wisdom of their own husbands.. What would a resurrection of men look like? It is very common for those who try to appear strong out Peacock's 'Praise This!' Marshall then objects to the phrase in the Open Letter heretical Pope. Will do whatever I can. Theyre conceptually different[.] NOT TOO LATE! The good part is that its NEVER too late to make up. Wherever it leads. Please review Rule 4 and this post before making a top level comment: I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. But again, has to involve all willing parties. And it aint gonna be clan chieftains Chris Ferrara or Steve Skojec or John-Henry Westen or Michael Voris or Patrick Coffin (who all preside over their own echo-chambers) either. But while both Gordon brothers have made their living in far-right circles of the Catholic internet, David said his plagiarism charge is about more than his own corner of Catholicism, and about far more than a dispute between brothers. Im saying that formal adherence to schismatic acts is a grave peril of attending the SSPX. I await your reply, Taylor Its sophistical to claim (ever) that its too late for civility. We bring that up over and over on TNT. (4-14-20, 8:58 AM). Gordon Dalbey. Get thicker skin. Why all the handwringing about civility? Your email address will not be published. The last is not a heresy, but also not what Pope Francis taught. And JP2 was FAR more modernist than he acknowledges, but the point is that Daves tweet to Taylor was 100.0000% civil[.] Another wrong SSPX talking point. This happened on Easter Sunday when Taylor Marshall received the sacraments from the SSPX: the breakaway group which is in imperfect communion with the Catholic Church. It is also a schismatic statement, since no one submits their minds and hearts to a Pope whom they think has said heretical things. Ego kills. Most are errors that Pope Francis does not teach. I reached out to Tim this morning. Marshall: I just dont see where anyone on earth can judge the Supreme Pontiff.. Taylor Marshall and Timothy Gordon are one of the funniest Catholic guys on Youtube. Most of the book is references to The Simpsons, and Rocky and Bullwinkle, and The Office. [2:41 PM), Disagreeing respectfully is the OPPOSITE of fragging. Youll see the term Catholic Used Book Service, which is my old side-business. To all those who believed that I was criticizing his/his familys reception of the Eucharist from the SSPX rather than the implicit invitation for the less-educated faithful to frequent SSPX liturgy, note this was not my intention. I used to watch Dr. Taylor Marshall, a Catholic theologian and blogger, quite a bit and he used to do these podcasts with fellow Catholic theologian Timothy J. Gordon. Because all of the temptations that you would expect to be at play within, like, the Catholic Twittersphere, YouTube, the one-man apostolate that is so popular now, all of those temptations towards monetization, towards fame, towards glory in the eyes of your 7,000 fans or whatever it is, they're all there., There's a race to the bottom. Taylor Marshall is a schismatic and a heretic, and therefore is not properly called a Catholic. Dont worry brother[.] And he states this again, more specifically later in the video. One has the right to defend ones reputation[.]. Dont act as if fringe groups and their leaders arent the mob w/ gang bosses on Cath twitter. And a ", Taylor Marshall vs. Timothy Gordon (Hatfields & McCoys Redux). Get over it. Some are born from culture, but they always look to heaven; they look to God. David told The Pillar that TAN informed him it had discontinued the sale and publication of Ask Your Husband in light of his allegation. Now they havent judged him, obviously no one can do that. I am living my life and have no time for their judgments over my soul and my family. Dwight Longenecker tweeted similarly: When Catholics set themselves up to judge and condemn popes and bishops its not long before they are judging and condemning one another. (4-14-20, 4:58 PM), It is fixable. (9:16 PM), Also for the record, Ive never been certain why Taylor opted for non-renewal during the peak of TNT popularity. Whats obtuse is a hermeneutic of intentionalism instead of a hermeneutic of textualism, Thats what we are saying: we KNOW the intent was bad. Its all my idea the way I framed it and created it into an argument, into a cogent thoughtfor someone to waltz in and take that stuff that they don't know about, and to beat me to the punch publishing my own book, filled with my own research, its theft of years of my life.. In response to questions, TAN told The Pillar it is our practice at TAN not to discuss externally the details related to the discontinuation of particular works. Im saying that formal adherence to schismatic acts is a grave peril of attending the SSPX. (1:01 PM), Agreed that there was a modernist intent going in. Steph would have known which encyclicals.. Show me where I called you a single name. Click here for a list of my Roman Catholic theology books and booklets, including books about the future.

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